July 5, 2009 at 7:19 pm #15187
I have just seen one of these come up for sale near me.
Is it in any way related to the venerable Alice 828, such as transformer balanced mic inputs and passive summing?
It looks like it was designed for 8 track recording. 12 channels, 4 groups. 8 monitors (?)
Could be a fun project!
BarkleyJuly 6, 2009 at 7:53 am #15525
While I’m not absolutely certain about the transformers, I’m pretty sure that the channel design was the same as the 828…. yes, it most likely has transformers, and the mixing system is likely to be the same also. This was a very successful design, they were used extensively for commercial production in radio stations all over the world.
The mixer that was less successful was the Itam 10-4. We developed that as an ‘improvement’ over the 828, but it was a poor performer, with sub-standard solid-state mic amps and a noisy mixing system….. It was a good example of ‘Improvement means deterioration’!
If the old 12-48 is in good working condition, it will sound good, and would do a good job as a small mixdown desk. It’s potentially on a par with the better ‘Soundcraft’ small mixers.July 6, 2009 at 8:39 am #15526
Thanks very much Ted!
If it has transformers, that would be good!
I’m considering it as a small, mobile recording front end and it may fit the bill well for that. The seller states that it has an insert and “channel out” on every channel at the back…I’m assuming that this is post EQ and post fade?
thanks again for your response
Barkley.July 6, 2009 at 8:54 am #15527
Certainly the channel output would be post fader, the insert is likely to be post EQ, although on all later systems I always placed the insert directly after the mic/line input stage.
The channel outputs are not likely to be too robust, but it will work OK as a ‘front-end’ for location work as long as the cables are kept short; I would suggest not longer than 10ft. Very long cables can load down the channel output amplifier causing distortion and HF loss… but that’s only in extreme cases.July 6, 2009 at 9:09 am #15528
At this age, I’m assuming that some of the pots and the fader are on the way out. Are these older parts still available should the need arise?
Also it looks like the fader is smaller than 100mm. Would it be a 60mm alps type in there?
BJuly 6, 2009 at 9:21 am #15529
Now we’re coming to the bad news! Those pots are ‘Omeg’ and they do suffer with age. The grease hardens and the tracks wear… and even worse, I don’t have any spares. I changed ove from ‘Omeg’ when we started to produce JoeMeek gear in quantity…. the later ‘Alps’ pots that we changed to (and still use) are much superior, but in most cases don’t fit as replacements.
I would suggest treat the ‘Omeg’ pots with some WD40 (NOT switch cleaner!) and then spray just a touch of ‘151’ which is a synthetic grease spray in a can. That way the pots should return to near new condition as long as they are not worn out. The one that will be worn out is the monitor gain and for sure that will nead replacing!
The faders are an early version of ‘Alps’. They are 60mm track and again, should be treated with WD40, and a touch of grease. They should be OK.July 7, 2009 at 11:34 am #15530
According to the seller there are no transformers in there.
Opamp balanced is what he says(?)
Would this have been manufactured in the 80’s and is it worth pursuing as a front end?
BarkleyJuly 7, 2009 at 12:29 pm #15531
I’m surprised…. but we were starting to introduce transformerless front ends in those days; and in that case the circuit would have been similar to the Soundcraft of the same era; an op-amp with a pair of pnp transistors in front of it. This arrangement works fine, but does not have the ‘class’ of the transformer. It’s still a fine old mixer, and will do the job.July 7, 2009 at 2:04 pm #15532
I’ve emailed the seller for some inside photos to verify.
It’d be great for me as I do a lot of Jazz recording, only needing minimal inputs.
A lot of these are location based, and having a funky thing like this as a “one piece”, my RME inteface and Mac would be great.
BarksJuly 9, 2009 at 11:40 am #15533
Here’s an inside photo…yup, no transformers.
Nicely made though.
[attachment=0:25ersww4]ASInside.jpg[/attachment:25ersww4]July 9, 2009 at 11:51 am #15534
Closeup of input:
so this must be a transitional one?
BarksJuly 19, 2009 at 6:34 pm #15535jason_tshParticipant
I bought the 12.48 that Barks posted pics of, and it’s really nice!
I already have an Alice 2008, which I absolutely love. It’s the same as an 828, but with balanced XLR outputs and a few other bits and bobs.
I am going to send both to you Ted, if that’s OK, to be serviced.
The only problem is that I love both of them, hehe, so I’m trying to work out a window of time to part with each of them to send them to you one at a time.
The 2008 has a few minor issues, but I have a bit of masking tape at the top of each channel strip, with those things noted. EG: The high EQ control does nothing on Channel 7, and channels 4 & 5 only work with the Gain control set to 12 o’clock or above. I just pull the fader down if need be, and have never had any problems. Channel 1 isn’t working at all at the moment, and channel 6 works, but is microphonic. When you tap the case of the mixer, channel 6 makes a loud noise.
But when I bought it, NONE of the channels worked, as it was packed TERRIBLY by the seller. It was literally just wrapped loosely in one layer of thin carboard, with absolutely no protection at all! And the Courier delivery guy was showing off that he’d “got some air” going over the bridge on the way to my house, and a load of parcels had fallen over in the van.
It was so damaged that the VU meters were no INSIDE the case somewhere near to the holes that they should’ve been sitting in.
I managed to rescue them, and got 6 of the channels working to a degree that I have been using them every single day in the studio for the past year, but it would be lovely to have everything working.
The 12.48 that this topic is about, I’ve just started testing it. I’m getting no signal on the right side of the Monitor Output, which is a stereo 1/4 socket. I get both OK from the Headphone output though. Is it acceptable to use the headphone output instead of the Monitor Output, or will there be a noticeable difference in the sound for any reason? That’s what I’m having to do at the moment, but plan on sending it to you soon.
The other thing I’m wondering is that the main recording output only gets Groups 1 & 2. Is there a way to route all 4 groups to it, to essentially record all 4 GRoups to one stereo pair of outputs? IE, I want to record that I’m hearing from the Headphone/Monitor output (all 4 groups), rather than just Groups 1 & 2.
I’m off upto the studio right now. Got to run, to catch a bus!
JasonJuly 20, 2009 at 2:25 pm #15536
I don’t want to sound like a killjoy, but please don’t send any mixers until end of August….
And also, my ‘fix it’ policy can only work with the resources that I have in TFPRO….. A number of components in those very old units are obsolete and can’t be replaced; but that said, I’m happy to fix whatever I can….. but another word of warning, and you have spotted this one already, sending a mixer via carrier is a dodgy business, much better to deliver it personally or by a friend!
Re the quality of headphone out, yes, that should be the same as ‘line out’, but you have to watch the levels as you can run out of headroom with the headphone gain turned too high.
Seriously, I have to advise against ‘sending’ these old relics….. and if I have fixed them, they will have to be collected by someone responsible; we have seen too many accidents! 😯July 21, 2009 at 2:05 pm #15537jason_tshParticipant
I’m trying to find some of that 151 grease you mentioned, and am having trouble. Sofar I’ve found the following items:
http://www.bannerhardware.co.uk/category/12347/ – if you scroll down, they have a product called “151 Hi-Tech Super Grease Spray”
Is it either of these?
The 2nd one looks more likely, in which case 151 is the name of the company that makes it, along with an amazing amount of spray typ products, all of which I of course want to try, haha!
I used the Alice 12.48 on a radio show last night, and found that the mic pres REALLY suit my ribbon mics. Not as warm sounding as the Alice 2008’s transformer pres, but clearer, and less boomy. With the 2008 I usually roll 2-3dB of bass off when using these ribbon mics, but on the 12.48 they sounded “right” without doing that. Both me and my assistant Mark noticed, looked at each other, and said how great it sounded.
So, today I’m WD40ing all the pots, and will “151” them once I have confirmation of which 151 I should get, hehe.
Thanks Ted, I’ll get either one or both of my Alice’s to you after the end of August.
JasonJuly 21, 2009 at 9:46 pm #15538
Yes! it’s the ‘Hi Tech Super Grease’, that’s the one! I have been using it recently and it really works well.
WD40 is the right thing for cleaning the pots, and the grease spray seems to work well on the shafts and the tracks. 😆
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